This week, the internet got a front-row seat to one person’s (too) long-in-coming epiphany about how much of an asshole they’ve been. Following some truly heinous comments about Palestiniains, Asmongold demonstrated what appeared to be authentic contrition, but is it too little, too late? And how does a popular content creator end up here in the first place? What about this line of work leads to so many outrageously bad, sometimes harmful takes? On the latest episode of Aftermath Hours, we discuss that.
This time around, we’re joined by a very special guest, the Aftermath Discord’s own head moderator Nico “Apple Cider” Deyo (who is also a longtime freelance games journalist), to discuss the trials and tribulations of Asmongold. Then we move on to the weird zombie version of Waypoint, a beloved video game site, that Vice recently dredged up. It’s bad! Lastly, we learn about a new thing Riley hates (Photo modes? For some reason?).
You can find this week's episode below and on Spotify, Apple, or wherever else you prefer to listen to podcasts. If you like what you hear, make sure to leave a review so that we can keep being journalists – rather than full-time content creators – and maintain our sanity.
Here’s an excerpt from our conversation:
Nathan: I think that someone who is better at doing this – though he also has his share of L takes – is [Charlie “Moistcr1tikal” White]. He loves to position himself similarly, where he’s like “I’m going to come into this bigger conversation and be the performatively rational one.”
Nico: It’s hard for me because a lot of these content creators we’re talking about tend to be white dudes, and they can kind of get away with that because they’re given a level of expertise and authority when they are literally just normal guys you could bump into at the bus station or a deli, but they have a camera in front of them.
That’s one of the things with this whole streamer relationship or the YouTuber relationship that makes me feel crazy sometimes. There is nothing that has made Asmongold or Moistcr1tikal a better thinker or a more aware person. They just have a platform and they just have a camera. It’s so frustrating, because I’m like, you’re coming into this conversation because it’s engagement and not because you actually care about this in your real life.
Nathan: In part because no single person could authentically care about the number of things that you need to care about to be a react streamer.
Nico: Exactly! Talking for hours on a livestream is a very hard ask. I truly understand that. But it’s also one of the things about that particular platform that breeds that [idea] of “I need to constantly be on. I need to constantly be talking about things – and not thinking about things.”
Nathan: Yeah, people come to you for the reaction. We were discussing the idea of authenticity earlier, and that’s one of the things that I think people tend to correlate with this notion of authenticity: They’re seeing you react for the first time. But that also means that there’s not a ton of room for preparation, and when you’re discussing important topics or news or what have you, it’s good to prep! You should prep! You might mess something up otherwise, or propagate misinformation, or not handle things with the seriousness they deserve – as I think Asmongold did earlier this week. In addition to saying something awful, he was also flippant about it.
To his credit, in his apology video, I think he really realized that he fucked up in that regard. I do think in this case he probably means it. I’m not sure he’s squared the ideas in his mind of this kind of thing doing harm alongside his anti-DEI videos. I think he thinks these things are separate. But there are moments in his video where he really does seem emotional about it, and as Riley was saying earlier, we need to give people a chance, at least, to say they’re sorry and do better. Because otherwise we’re just living in a punitive society where all we do is say “Nope, you are beyond repair and should be banished eternally.”
Riley: I guess the question to me a lot is: What are the consequences? I think Nico’s point that there’s him as a guy and him as a streamer, and if you are irresponsibly wielding your platform to say bad things that hurt people, you should lose that platform. That’s a reasonable consequence. But you should still have friends in your real life.
Nico: You should still have friends, absolutely. I think he needs more friends – better real friends in his life that can pull him back. Because we’ve seen flame outs like this at a much smaller level, at a much more personal level, and had to tell people “Hey, you are doing some really awful stuff right now to either yourself or the people around you. Let’s put down the phone.” He deserves that.
But if you constantly use your platform and your position to hurt others, if you really care about rehabilitation or restorative justice or anything in that vein, you have to be pulled back and cut off from the things that are instruments of material harm. And I think a lot of these people get into content creation because it’s fun, and then it becomes a job, and then the job becomes a lifestyle, and the lifestyle then becomes X, Y, and Z. And I think if you’re going to make a very serious commitment to your mental health and your life – your actual, real life – you have a real responsibility to yourself to pull yourself from the situation that is aiding and abetting you in doing this. Putting away the things you are using to hurt other people.
It’s hard to talk around, but I think some of these guys have gotten in so deep with the way content creation works; I think a lot of content creation grips people that do have mental health issues – who are workaholics, who are supplementing income in that way, and it just kind of snowballs. But it’s also platforms gamifying workaholism with metrics, and that’s very easy to loop yourself into. It’s very easy to get into that workaholic mindset because there are financial incentives. It’s one thing to walk away from smoking or drinking or whatever, but this a job – a job with no rules and very few guardrails and potentially tons of money and potentially adoration. That is a very hard thing to walk away from or remember feeling bad about.
Riley: Have we ever seen anyone turn it around? I think I’ve seen that in my own communities in terms of reconciliation processes, which is a value I hold, but the practice is often not as successful.
Nathan: Turned it around in this night and day way? Not anyone I can think of. But there are a lot of content creators who have gradually moved in a better direction over time in terms of their viewpoints and their understanding of their own responsibilities. A lot of this comes with just, like, these people start young. And even though they don’t necessarily get the life experience a lot of us get out in the real world, they still do grow up, have more experiences, meet more people, mellow out a little bit, and recognize that some of the things they did when they were younger or some of the values they held were not super great.
Another member of OTK, Nick [Polom], hangs out with Hasan [Piker] a lot now and seems to have much better politics than he used to. He used to be kind of an edgelord. I think these people grow on their own terms, maybe sometimes in less pronounced ways. They don’t necessarily grow in these big spurts. But they do change. It’s just that in a lot of cases they’re incentivized not to, so when they do, it’s kind of the exception that proves the rule.
Riley: Yeah, that’s kind of true of all of us. I make this joke a lot, but I’m really glad that when I was young – and especially when I was first coming out as trans – we didn’t really have the internet. Sometimes I’m like “Phew, everything I thought is lost to the ages.” I do feel a lot of compassion for what it means to have this public platform so young. Everybody grows and changes. It’s not like everybody has a secret edgelord past, but we grow and our politics grow, and hopefully we become better people in whatever spirit that is. It’s gotta be so hard, if you’re being rewarded for [refusing to change] as a young person. How do you pivot? What does it mean? Do you get calcified?
